Catalan President Carles Puigdemont took part in international diplomatic forum Beyond
Borders on Sunday at the invitation of its organisers in Scotland. The forum is a cultural and political event that focuses on the exchange and dialogue between nations, peoples and cultures.This year’s two-day event will feature academics and diplomats,
particularly those from Europe and North America, discussing
international negotiations, refugees and self-determination.
The line-up includes Former UN Under-Secretary General Jeffrey Feltman and UN Special Representative Michael Keating discussing how to make peace amid some of the world’s most volatile conflicts.
Beyond Borders – a not-for-profit organisation – was founded by Mark Muller Stuart QC, who specialises in public international law, criminal, terrorism and human rights-related litigation. SNP MP Stephen Gethins and journalist Allan Little were listed among its special advisers.
Noting the recent decision by the Spanish Government to exhume the
corpse of the fascist dictator Francisco Franco, Puigdemont told
CommonSpace that such gestures alone were not sufficient to rid Spain of
Francoist influence.
Puigdemont stated: “I think the most important [way to tackle enduring Francoism] is to start a program of de-Francoisation of the political culture and public spaces in Spain. It is not acceptable to see a lot of streets with the name of Franco or Francoist leaders. It’s not acceptable to have the legal foundations of Francoism. It’s not acceptable to have pictures of Franco. We must remove all the evidence of the dictatorship that are still alive. Of course, most important is to change the minds of the deep state, and to do something in order to have a real separation of powers; to have an army and a police with no political links with the fascist ideologies.” Finally, said Puigdemont, it will be necessary “to recognise the victims of Francoism – to exhume the thousands and thousands of bodies that disappeared during the civil war; to return the bodies to their families. That is a question of dignity.”
Echoing the sentiments of Aamer Anwar, the lawyer for exiled Catalan minister Clara Ponsati, who has repeatedly argued that Francoism persists in the modern Spanish state, Puigdemont observed that the vast tomb where Franco’s body has traditionally resided “is still paid for with public money.”
He explained: “You can go to Madrid and pay nine euros to visit the grave of Franco, and the body of the founder of the fascist party of Spain, the Phalange. That monument is paid for with public funds. Puigdemont continued: “Every year, a lot of people show their support to the fascist regime. If you look to the reality, you can find a Francisco Franco Foundation that is absolutely legal, and receives public funds. Not one part of that is illegal. “The only thing that is illegal in Spain is to call for a referendum of self-determination. That is the paradox.”
“The democratic transition was a failure. Not only because the king of Spain was nominated by Franco – that is in evidence, it is not an opinion – but because the [Spanish] deep state is not so far from the Franco dictatorship. The culture, I mean.”
Referring to a recent public statement signed by over 180 high-ranking officers of the Spanish military demanding respect for Franco in response to the announcement of the dictator’s exhumation, Puigdemont again emphasised: “That is legal. But if you sign something against the monarchy, you can be condemned to more than three years in jail. That is one of the keys to understanding what is happening in Spain.”
Addressing the current Catalan political situation, Puigdemont
further railed against Spain’s democratic shortcomings by reminding his
audience of his own fugitive status, and the former members of his
government that remain political prisoners. “I’m living in exile. A significant part of my former government is
still in jail, facing charges for rebellion and embezzlement of funds
which could represent thirty years in jail. Nine of my colleagues still in jail are there without trial. And
they were elected, and they act as elected politicians. But because of
that, they are in jail.”
Yet despite these difficulties, Puigdemont went on, the Catalan independence movement persists; describing the factors which have allowed it to reach this point, Puigdemont said:
- “First, people. That is important. We never can decide without people. And that is one of the key questions of our culture.
- “Second, human rights. Within the framework of human rights, it [independence] is possible.
- “Finally, respect – respect for others that think different from you.
“If you put in all these ingredients, you will cook not only a Catalan cake, but a democratic cake.”
We have a good relationship with the other parts of Spain, like the Basque Country or Valencia, but that doesn’t mean they are ready to support our right to self-determination.“We are probably 16 per cent of the Spanish population. We are a minority. So, it is good for us to be part of a project to transform Spain. [But] if you look at the governments of the rest of the autonomous regions in Spain, you can see basically a majority for the Popular Party, and a minority for the Socialist Party,” said Puigdemont, citing the current makeup of Spain’s so-called ‘presidents conference’.
“Unless you have an agreement with the rest of the Spanish regions in order to force the Spanish Government into a change, you haven’t got the power, because the majority remains in the hands of the Spanish Government.”
Discussing the distinctions between sovereigntistas – who, like the leftist Spanish political party Podemos, support the right to self-determination, if not Catalan independence itself – and independentistas, Puigdemont argued that Catalonia had attempted many other political solutions to address its unique national needs and aspirations, saying: “After 40 years of the Spanish constitution, we have tried to present and propose several ways to solve the Catalan issue [that were] not independence; fiscal agreements, new and original constitutional law, non-binding consultations, etc. Always, it was a ‘no’.”
The line-up includes Former UN Under-Secretary General Jeffrey Feltman and UN Special Representative Michael Keating discussing how to make peace amid some of the world’s most volatile conflicts.
Beyond Borders – a not-for-profit organisation – was founded by Mark Muller Stuart QC, who specialises in public international law, criminal, terrorism and human rights-related litigation. SNP MP Stephen Gethins and journalist Allan Little were listed among its special advisers.
Puigdemont stated: “I think the most important [way to tackle enduring Francoism] is to start a program of de-Francoisation of the political culture and public spaces in Spain. It is not acceptable to see a lot of streets with the name of Franco or Francoist leaders. It’s not acceptable to have the legal foundations of Francoism. It’s not acceptable to have pictures of Franco. We must remove all the evidence of the dictatorship that are still alive. Of course, most important is to change the minds of the deep state, and to do something in order to have a real separation of powers; to have an army and a police with no political links with the fascist ideologies.” Finally, said Puigdemont, it will be necessary “to recognise the victims of Francoism – to exhume the thousands and thousands of bodies that disappeared during the civil war; to return the bodies to their families. That is a question of dignity.”
Echoing the sentiments of Aamer Anwar, the lawyer for exiled Catalan minister Clara Ponsati, who has repeatedly argued that Francoism persists in the modern Spanish state, Puigdemont observed that the vast tomb where Franco’s body has traditionally resided “is still paid for with public money.”
He explained: “You can go to Madrid and pay nine euros to visit the grave of Franco, and the body of the founder of the fascist party of Spain, the Phalange. That monument is paid for with public funds. Puigdemont continued: “Every year, a lot of people show their support to the fascist regime. If you look to the reality, you can find a Francisco Franco Foundation that is absolutely legal, and receives public funds. Not one part of that is illegal. “The only thing that is illegal in Spain is to call for a referendum of self-determination. That is the paradox.”
“The democratic transition was a failure. Not only because the king of Spain was nominated by Franco – that is in evidence, it is not an opinion – but because the [Spanish] deep state is not so far from the Franco dictatorship. The culture, I mean.”
Referring to a recent public statement signed by over 180 high-ranking officers of the Spanish military demanding respect for Franco in response to the announcement of the dictator’s exhumation, Puigdemont again emphasised: “That is legal. But if you sign something against the monarchy, you can be condemned to more than three years in jail. That is one of the keys to understanding what is happening in Spain.”
Yet despite these difficulties, Puigdemont went on, the Catalan independence movement persists; describing the factors which have allowed it to reach this point, Puigdemont said:
- “First, people. That is important. We never can decide without people. And that is one of the key questions of our culture.
- “Second, human rights. Within the framework of human rights, it [independence] is possible.
- “Finally, respect – respect for others that think different from you.
“If you put in all these ingredients, you will cook not only a Catalan cake, but a democratic cake.”
We have a good relationship with the other parts of Spain, like the Basque Country or Valencia, but that doesn’t mean they are ready to support our right to self-determination.“We are probably 16 per cent of the Spanish population. We are a minority. So, it is good for us to be part of a project to transform Spain. [But] if you look at the governments of the rest of the autonomous regions in Spain, you can see basically a majority for the Popular Party, and a minority for the Socialist Party,” said Puigdemont, citing the current makeup of Spain’s so-called ‘presidents conference’.
“Unless you have an agreement with the rest of the Spanish regions in order to force the Spanish Government into a change, you haven’t got the power, because the majority remains in the hands of the Spanish Government.”
Discussing the distinctions between sovereigntistas – who, like the leftist Spanish political party Podemos, support the right to self-determination, if not Catalan independence itself – and independentistas, Puigdemont argued that Catalonia had attempted many other political solutions to address its unique national needs and aspirations, saying: “After 40 years of the Spanish constitution, we have tried to present and propose several ways to solve the Catalan issue [that were] not independence; fiscal agreements, new and original constitutional law, non-binding consultations, etc. Always, it was a ‘no’.”
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